Rethinking Employee Wellbeing with Emily Warren
Watch the episode
Summary
In this episode of The No Nonsense Sustainability Podcast, host Ildiko Almasi Simsic welcomes Emily Warren, an award-winning HR leader, to discuss the evolving landscape of employee wellbeing within the context of ESG initiatives. The conversation delves into the often overlooked 'Social' pillar of ESG and how companies can better address employee mental health and resilience.
Emily Warren shares her insights on the limitations of traditional corporate wellness programs, which often focus on superficial perks like yoga classes and meditation apps. She emphasizes the importance of a holistic approach to wellbeing that includes physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual health. The discussion also highlights the need for organizations to engage in self-reflection and consider how their structures and practices may contribute to employee burnout.
The episode concludes with a call for a more strategic and integrated approach to employee wellbeing, suggesting that organizations should prioritize leadership training and systemic changes over quick fixes. Emily argues that sustainable performance is driven by genuine employee wellbeing, which requires commitment from all levels of an organization.
Highlights
Emily Warren discusses the 'Social' pillar of ESG and its importance.
Traditional wellness programs often miss the root causes of employee dissatisfaction.
A holistic approach to wellbeing includes body, mind, heart, and soul.
Organizations need to self-reflect on their role in employee burnout.
Leadership training should focus on empathy and psychological safety.
Wellbeing initiatives should be strategic and integrated across the organization.
Key takeaways
1. Employee wellbeing is a multifaceted issue that extends beyond simple wellness perks.
2. Organizations must engage in self-reflection to identify structural causes of employee stress.
3. Leadership training in empathy and psychological safety is crucial for effective wellbeing initiatives.
4. Sustainable performance is linked to genuine employee wellbeing, requiring systemic organizational changes.
Timestamped breakdown
0:01 — Introduction to the Episode: Host Ildiko Almasi Simsic introduces the topic of employee wellbeing and guest Emily Warren.
1:24 — Defining Employee Wellbeing: Emily Warren explains a holistic model of wellbeing encompassing body, mind, heart, and soul.
4:18 — Common Mistakes in Wellbeing Initiatives: Discussion on why many corporate wellness programs fail to address core issues.
8:43 — Where Wellbeing Initiatives Belong: Exploration of the best organizational placement for wellbeing initiatives.
13:03 — Targeting Systems, Not Individuals: Critique of initiatives that focus on individual responsibility rather than systemic change.
17:24 — Leadership and Wellbeing: The role of leadership in fostering a culture of wellbeing.
22:24 — Employee Responsibility vs. Organizational Role: Discussion on the balance between employee responsibility and organizational support.
31:17 — Burnout as a Workplace Issue: Exploration of burnout as a symptom of organizational problems rather than individual failings.
37:44 — Future of Wellbeing Initiatives: Emily Warren shares her vision for the evolution of corporate wellbeing strategies.
Edited transcript
Welcome back to the No Nonsense Sustainability Podcast. I'm your host, Ildiko Almasi Simsic, and today we're discussing something that's been on my radar for a long time: employee wellbeing as part of the ESG initiatives. I have today Emily Warren with me, who is an award-winning HR leader and keynote speaker speaking about culture, belonging, and wellbeing. She successfully transformed the wellbeing culture of a $5 billion company and is now available to consult. Welcome to the show, Emily.
Thank you, Ildiko. It's so great to be here with you this morning. This show is more about sustainability, but we can't not mention the wellbeing of employees and how employers and companies are kind of targeting this often overlooked aspect of the 'S' in ESG. The format of the show is that I have a buzzer in case we slip into some buzzwords or jargon so that we can make this content accessible for people who are not familiar with these industry terms. So let's begin. What is a wellbeing initiative, and what is employee wellbeing without using buzzwords or jargon?
I think a lot of the time when we talk about wellbeing, we're really talking about wellness. And that word particularly evokes sorts of yoga, smoothie bars, candles, you know, all of that stuff that we see from all of the big wellness brands. That's why I don't like to use it in a corporate environment. Wellbeing really should be much more encompassing than that. There are lots of different models of wellbeing, and most organizations will have their own kind of definition and pillars of it. But there's one that I like to use that I think is really nice and simple and straightforward, and there's a few organizations out there who use this as well. So this is what I mean when I'm talking about wellbeing: it's body, it's mind, it's heart, and it's soul.
Body, I think we're really familiar with. We think of nutrition, exercise, sleep, physical health, but it's also things like energy and our ability to recover our energy and our physical safety and comfort. So from a corporate lens, things like ergonomics and health and safety really come into this bracket as well. And then if we think about the mind, we quite often think just about mental health, but we should also be thinking about things like our ability to learn and grow and stretch and also things like can we manage our finances with confidence. That's an important part of what plays on people's minds as well.
When we move to our heart, it's about being able to identify and express our emotions and be able to manage them proactively too. Can we have fun? Do we feel connected to people in our lives? Do we feel like we're part of a community? Do we have people that support us? And then if we move on to soul, and I think this is one that quite often gets forgotten, are we able to live life according to our values? Do we have goals that we can strive for? Do we feel appreciated and recognized? And do we feel seen, heard, and valued ourselves? So you can see that that's starting to tie into our sense of inclusion and belonging in the workplace as well. It's much more all-encompassing than I think a lot of people really think it is. You can start to see some of those ties into how it might link to some of our more strategic work that we do in organizations and particularly within HR.
Yes. When I'm reviewing these ESG reports and they talk about employee wellbeing, they usually talk about things like the yoga Tuesday that we provide, subscriptions to the meditation app that we have, on-site counseling, and it's all different aspects of what you've just described as wellbeing, but they're not getting to the root cause. So when you're working with organizations, what is their thought process that leads them into identifying these initiatives as the best initiatives for wellbeing?
That's a good question. For a lot of organizations, I think there are three main things that I think organizations do wrong. The first thing is that they're often too tactical. The person who's given the job of overhauling wellbeing is sometimes somebody quite junior in the HR team. It's a side-of-desk job, or it's given to somebody else quite junior, and that's not the fault of the person who's been given it, but it needs a more strategic thought process than that. It's also worth pointing out that the wellbeing industry really hasn't been professionalized yet in the same way that other parts of human resources have been. So you're actually seeing quite a new group of people sometimes coming into this industry without necessarily the skills and the experience to navigate it. They're not getting that face time with the executives in their organizations, and they're not getting that leadership buy-in, and therefore what they can do is this tactical work. So it's the awareness days, it's the apps, it's the fruit baskets, and those things are the easier things to do. So those are the things that get targeted first.
The second thing that I think organizations aren't great at is listening to what their employees really want. I think we all know this scenario. We go out to our employees, we give them the employee sentiment listening surveys, and we ask them what they think, and they will come back and say, "I don't feel my job is secure, and I'm worried about my financial position because we haven't had bonuses paid for a while, and I don't feel like I'm connected to the organization." Then we look at that and think, well, job security means we've got to fix our business or make our business more profitable. That's too hard. So we put it in the too-hard box and we don't do anything about it. Now, it's really difficult to do some of these things, but there are things that we can do to help ease the uncertainty when there's job insecurity. So I think that's the second thing that I see with organizations that we're not really going into.
The last thing is self-reflection on behalf of the organization. I think it's much too easy for us to blame employees for their own burnouts, their own issues in their personal life. If they're stressed, they're not resilient enough. Actually, what we're not looking at is what is it as an employer that we can do to help lessen the demands on these people? What is it that we might be doing through the way our business functions to cause stress to them? I think if we had a little bit more self-reflection, that would really change how we think about the interventions that we want to put in for our organizations.
But in terms of the governance structure, the wellbeing initiatives usually sit within the HR team.
That's a really interesting question. I have seen wellbeing sit in all sorts of places, and again, this is part of the fact that it hasn't really been professionalized yet. So I've seen it sit in employee experience, in inclusion, in health and safety, in rewards and benefits. It really does kind of move around a bit, and a lot of the times it's down to how that organization has evolved. You'll see organizations that have had really strong health and safety departments, say like the utilities industry, then quite often their wellbeing evolves out of that need for health and safety. Whereas with some places, you'll see it evolve out of benefits, and where it sits absolutely shapes the emphasis you get on the wellbeing initiatives that people put in.
Based on your experience, what would be the best place for it? Because to me, it seems like, again, it's something similar to the rest of the social issues that I deal with through my job where some would be with HR, some would be with human rights teams or CSR teams. Others would be best suited with a health and safety team or engineering team because it really is a combination of things. Now that you mentioned the ergonomics and the chair, that was provided to me in all my offices, but I never thought of it as a wellbeing initiative.
Yeah. I think you've hit the nail on the head. When I looked at this in our own organization, we had this decision to make. It was originally in employee experience, but when we evolved it into a full-time function, we had that decision to say, well, where does this sit? We looked at benefits, we looked at other places in HR. The thing that we came down to was we put it with inclusion because there's so much overlap with inclusion that actually wellbeing really has the opportunity to amplify inclusion initiatives and get to people that maybe inclusion is missing or that have disengaged from diversity and inclusion efforts. There's an infrastructure there quite often that is exactly what you need to be able to roll out strategic wellbeing initiatives. That being said, one of the things that wellbeing really needs to do is partner across the organization. I used to sit on our citizenship council as well because, as you called out, we need that tie-in to sustainability because if you think about it, wellbeing is just human sustainability. That's what it's about.
Exactly.
But corporate citizenship efforts like volunteering, we talked earlier about this piece of soul where you want to feel purposed and valued. Well, corporate citizenship is a brilliant way of helping support that need in us. Of course, you do need benefits and things that uplift the employee experience. So you do need to work closely with your benefits team. You need to work closely with your health and safety team. I did during COVID; that was part of what we had to do. I helped roll out the mandatory vaccines in North America. So it's really a kind of portfolio type of role where it sits is maybe less important than how you see it and knowing that it's got to be part of those partnerships and not getting too tied to what it is that the organization you're sat within is doing.
Now, let's say we have managed to locate this team in the right place within the organization. We do have our partners. We're thinking together strategically what to do, and still our best idea is the meditation app and the stretching and let's do a 5K with the company. Why is it that all of these initiatives are targeting individuals and not targeting the system that puts them in that position where they don't feel well in the workplace?
I think we're coming back to what we said earlier about the lack of self-reflection as an organization. So what is it that we're doing that is causing damage to our employees? That is, I think, a difficult process for organizations. This idea that there's some culpability that you have, but also that if you actually do that exercise and you look at what you need to change, these things are really hard. So you're looking at things like we've already mentioned job security, but career development. So we talked about being able to learn and grow and stretch, career development, and personal development. We need to be looking at the way that we lead people. So there's a huge amount of leadership effectiveness in there. None of these things are kind of easy, light-touch things that you got to do. Then you look at things like job design or team dynamics, and some of this stuff actually comes to the heart of how does your organization work? How does it make money? Any business that bills by the hour or by the day or, in some cases, by the six-minute chunk if you're in a law firm, that entire business model is working towards that idea of the more time you work, the more money you bring in. So that really doesn't sit well with ideas of maximizing people's outputs through having intense work periods of maybe 75 to 90 minutes and then taking a 15-minute break because we know people are able to focus better. They make less mistakes, and they're more creative, and they're able to join the dots in different ways. So, you know, sometimes it's just too difficult to make some of those changes. I think then you fall back on, okay, well, what can we do? What's easy? There's often pressure to say, well, we need to make changes. Our people are saying they're unhappy. Maybe we're getting high attrition. So let's do something. Often, "do something" is, well, an app's easy. So I think you can see how we end up there.
Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned working, you know, like day rate or hourly rate because that's literally our whole industry. When I worked for one of these consultancy companies, I also had a utilization rate that had to be above, I don't even remember, 80% for the month, which meant that 80% of my day I had to have a code from a project that's like billable hour or billable minutes. I often felt like I don't have that space to lean back, think about my project, and think about bigger added values. I was just a conveyor belt delivering, delivering. I particularly like when you mention leadership because I think what I've seen over the past 10-15 years is a lot more emphasis on training leaders to be empathetic, to go beyond the project management, and actually manage the people with their expectations and their feelings. How do you see the leadership training tie in with wellness or wellbeing initiatives?
This is a really important point, and it's something that we invested significantly in. Part of this is if you look at the history of leadership and what leadership means to us and how that's changed because leadership for years has been about strategic vision. It's been about agility in the face of uncertainty. It's about negotiation skills, the ability to plan. All of those things are things that we have been selecting for and training for for years. So if you go to an executive in an organization now, maybe for 20 years, those executives have been selected out for those kind of strategic and adaptable traits, and they have been trained in those strategic and adaptable traits. We have not been selecting for empathy, for authenticity, and those types of traits. We've not been training them either. So what we saw with COVID was this massive shift in what we expected from our leaders. All of a sudden, we were expecting them to be empathetic and open and vulnerable. Some leaders really excelled in that because they have those traits naturally, and some really struggled. That's not necessarily the fault of the leader or a lack of desire on the part of the leader. Some people really want to be able to lead for wellbeing but don't know how. So if you understand that context and you take the view that things like empathy are actually trainable skills because you can learn empathy, you can increase your empathy if you work at it and you learn how to do it. What we can then do is say, okay, how do we help our leaders learn how to create psychologically safe environments for their people? How do they notice when things are wrong for people? When they've identified that something's wrong, how do we give them the confidence to navigate those experiences so that they feel that they're not intruding, but they're able to support and they know what to do? I think that's a really key part of what we can do for our leaders and helping them develop how to lead in more human ways.
But that's very challenging to measure, right? It's not a KPI like 80% of our employees are on the app for meditation. It's, you know, you need a more refined way to measure that, and that comes back to, like, okay, what is the return on our investment on these wellbeing initiatives because that's usually one of the reasons why they don't get that much budget, maybe that much awareness or interest from senior leaders.
Some of these things are longer-term ROIs, so it's quite... You can see the return on investment of your app quite quickly. You know, you can see the number of people who have downloaded it. You can see the number of people who are using it. That's fairly simple and straightforward. If you train a leader to be a good leader, and one of the things you're looking for is a reduction in burnout rates, it might take you two years to see that because burnout takes time to build. I mean, there's no fixed time scale for how long it takes for somebody to burn out, but you're looking generally at a period of months or even years. So if you've now got a leader who is much more attuned to creating a low-burnout environment, then you might not see the output of that for a couple of years. Plus, you might be looking across quite a small population. So it is a difficult thing to measure. You need that trust in that process and to wait to see that return on investment. Again, this is hard for companies when you're getting pressurized from maybe the very top down, the board or whatever it is, on your attrition rates and what people are saying in your surveys about poor wellbeing. You're getting asked to show activity very quickly. But we really shouldn't be confusing activity and impact. Often, I think the big strategic things that are really going to shift your wellbeing over time are getting deprioritized because we're getting pressured to see short-term results.
I understand what you're saying about some of these initiatives paying off at some point in the future, but based on your overarching definition, some of the elements of wellbeing are more individual. I want to get your feeling on how companies think about employees' responsibility for speaking up, establishing boundaries, maybe not taking on the extra workload. I know it's, you know, everyone's perspective is that the other person is at fault, but based on your experience, is this a conversation they're having at a top level?
I think it really depends on the company. I'm thinking about the organizations that I see presenting in awards nominations and things like that, and all of the wellbeing professionals that I know, and I think it's still the minority, to be honest, who are really looking internally to say what is it that we're doing and what is it that our employees are doing. There is absolutely an employee responsibility here. But I think the research now is really saying for things like burnout, and I mentioned burnout because it's one of our biggest reasons that people take time off work for mental health. For things like burnout, there's been some brilliant research from, and I want to particularly call out the McKinsey Health Institute here and Barbara Jeff and her team because what they did was they looked at burnout in a slightly different way. I think a lot of people are thinking of burnout as being on a kind of spectrum from holistic health at one end and burnout at the other end. What this research did was say actually these aren't two different ends of the spectrum. It's two axes. So if you think we've got holistic health running in one direction and...
But what is holistic health?
So... I've been buzzed. I'm amazed I got this far without being buzzed, to be honest. So it's all of those physical health indicators you think about. So we went back to the beginning. It's our mental health, it's our physical health, it's our sleep, our exercise, our nutrition, all of that kind of stuff.
Okay.
Some of that is not an employer's responsibility. A lot of when I go to bed is my responsibility, what I eat.
Yeah.
So there's a kind of mix there because you've got to have the time to do it. But if I'm not eating properly, a large amount of that might be down to me, or if I'm not going and exercising.
So that sits on one of the axes.
So that sits on one of the axes, and the other one is burnout symptoms. What they found was that these things can coexist. So you've got a portion of people who are faring well where they've got low burnout symptoms and high holistic health. So they're eating well, they're exercising, they don't have lots of chronic illnesses, and they're not showing signs of fatigue or stress or those types of things.
I think that's a very low percentage of people, right?
It's actually not as low worldwide as you'd think, but yeah, it's... I'm trying to remember what the numbers are globally. I think it's about 34% or something. It's not terrifying, you know.
But there's this other sector which I think a lot of corporates would be really familiar with, and that's the stretch zone. So this is people who have high holistic health and high burnout symptoms. I think you will know if I describe these people, you will know this. So they're the ones that work long hours in high-stress demanding jobs, and they still go running, and they still look after what they eat, and they try and get a good night's sleep, and they try and spend time with their friends, but work is a big part of their life, and it is demanding.
Can we just go back to the burnout symptoms? What are these elements of burnout that we might not recognize in ourselves?
The World Health Organization defines burnout as having three kind of core identifiers. One is this feeling of fatigue and exhaustion that I think is what most people identify burnout with. There is also cynicism. So this is when people start to be slightly sarcastic about their work or this sense of, oh yeah, but obviously we're not going to get our bonuses paid, or yeah, we're not going to win that deal, or you know, those types of thoughts creeping in. The third one is a feeling of professional inefficacy. So you start to doubt your own abilities and your own skills. Those three things are the kind of...
Impostor. It's almost like the impostor syndrome where you don't feel like you don't know what you're doing or that you're not good enough.
Yes. It's a little bit of that. You can see how when there's too many demands on you and you can't meet those demands, and the workload is always higher than you could ever achieve no matter how many hours you work, how that might start to get internalized and a feeling of, well, actually I should be able to do this, or it's me that's failing rather than the job is not set up for me to be successful.
Yeah. That's a very key point. I think that sometimes these organizations are not setting up their people to succeed. They're setting them up... You know, the reward for working well and efficiently is even more work.
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. If you want something done, you give it to somebody busy. But the problem with this is that your individual interventions, so keeping yourself as healthy as you can, will only buffer you from burnout for so long. So what you can see is you only need to push that little bit harder, make people work that little bit longer, before some of these things start dropping away. So maybe they aren't able to get out for their lunchtime walk every day. They aren't able to cook dinner, so they eat something that's sort of pre-prepared and maybe less healthy. They're stressed, so they aren't sleeping as well. It doesn't take much then once you start withdrawing those supports for people to just slide into that drowning zone where burnout can start to take hold.
The really interesting bit about this research that McKinsey did was they looked at what are the drivers and enablers for this. When they looked at holistic health, they found that the employee had a big part to play in what they could do to help boost their holistic health. But when they looked at the drivers of burnout symptoms, they found that overwhelmingly the causes were your job. So your job design, how it's set up, how it works, the actual core functions of it, and your team dynamic. So how your team functions together. Those things together are things that are in control of the organization. They're not in control of the employee. The World Health Organization defines burnout as a workplace issue. So really we need to get out of this mindset that if somebody has a burnout, it is something that they have done wrong, that they are at fault for their burnout. I think we still see it that way in a lot of cases. It's, oh, what's gone wrong in their life that's caused this to happen. Whereas really we should be looking at this as a symptom that something is wrong in our work environment and looking internally to say, okay, what's gone wrong here that burnout has happened? I'm not saying... I want to be really clear about this, that things won't happen in people's lives. People will overwork themselves. They do. But they will also have family issues. They'll have bereavements. They'll have illnesses. There'll be things in their lives that are contributing to this situation. But how have you created an environment where people are talking about their wellbeing regularly and are comfortable asking for help when they start to struggle? How are you, as leaders, looking out for your people and noticing when you're seeing changes and intercepting if necessary? So there is a lot we can do as organizations to work with our people on these areas even when maybe the core demands or the stressors are coming from outside the work environment.
It's interesting when you talk about people's wellbeing because I've been in many workplaces where they asked me how I was doing. They felt genuinely concerned about my wellbeing, but then when something actually went wrong and I shared, there was no skill to manage that. It's one thing to ask the question and have empathy for the feeling or for the person, but then how do you take that further? Are you offering time off? Are you offering to reconsider workload? How are you as an organization preparing your leaders to reply to these incidents outside the workplace with the right level of emotional intelligence?
That's bringing us back to what we were talking about earlier with that training for leaders because what you're saying is we've got to that point where we've noticed. So we've either noticed something's going wrong or you've said, so we've definitely noticed that there's an issue. But it's how do we navigate that? We don't just need empathy, we need compassion. Empathy is where I'm feeling it with you. That's great. We need that. But compassion is, and how can I help? What can I do to support you? Being able to really navigate that. Sometimes people don't know what they need, and you might need somebody who's been through it and who can give some suggestions, but sometimes they do know what they need. It's therefore down to leaders to say, well, how can we make that work? How can we work with HR to actually help these things? HR aren't the enemy here. They do...
It's important to say because...
They don't have a good reputation for this.
I know how some people view HR. They hire, they fire, they're here to tell you when you've done something naughty. But really good people teams, and I want to use that term here. We're seeing the emergence of chief people officers and people teams. They do care about the people in their organizations. We're seeing that evolution of thinking. It's not about resources. I think resources is utterly dehumanizing. It's an awful word to use, and those words help us think about people as if they're objects. Then we've got employees, but that's your work persona. But when we start saying people, that kind of forces us to start thinking about the person behind the employee and about more than just the resource. There is a lot of expertise usually in these teams. They will have seen burnouts. They'll have seen the family breakups. They'll have seen... They may well have supported domestic abuse survivors, for example, to leave their homes in a safe way. There's a lot of goodness that comes in all of these HR teams that can be pulled upon that I think the reputation of HR sometimes gets in the way of. That's why I love to see this evolution of actually, no, we're people teams. We're here to not just be the kind of gatekeepers of people, but we're there to support them as well. For organizations like I think you described, with things like consultancies or, again, law firms or anything really where people are part of your product, if you're not looking after the health of your people, you're devaluing your own product. You wouldn't leave... If you're a green grower, you wouldn't leave all your vegetables out just overnight to get rained on and get frosted. You just wouldn't because that's what you're selling. You want to look after your produce and make sure it's in as good condition as possible. I think we need to take that same mindset to our people. If we're selling people or their expertise or their skills or even if you're in manufacturing, there's a lot of skilled jobs that go into that. You don't want people making mistakes. You want them at their best to be able to produce their best. So let's start thinking of them as the thing that you're actually producing and how do you take care of the value of that for your organization.
Yeah, there's a lot of lessons learned here, and as you pointed out, this whole sector is just getting to that stage where it can be formalized and it can be set up as an equal business unit to the other ones. Looking into the future, how do you see wellbeing initiatives across organizations being adapted in a way that works and moves from these individual interventions to a more systematic review of organizational culture?
I think we are slowly starting to see the professionalization of wellbeing. It is becoming more established. You have more practitioners out there who are skilled and have the experience of doing this more strategically in organizations. You have more chief people officers out there who have had good wellbeing leads in their organizations and know how powerful that strategic approach can be. So I think it is expanding. There's been a lot of growth in this area, I think, over the last 5-10 years. So we are starting to see a more systemic approach to it emerge. We're starting to see some qualifications come out now for wellbeing leaders to teach them how to do this well. I think those things will only be helpful, and the more we can upskill our wellbeing leaders, the more able they will be to articulate what it is that will make a difference and to influence because we do need those leaders to be able to influence at the top levels. I was extremely lucky. I always knew how blessed I was when I went to these round tables and people would be talking about executive buy-in, and I knew that my CEO wanted me in that position. We created the position of global wellbeing lead for me so I could do that. It was a director-level position. It wasn't a junior position. I reported directly into our chief people officer. She was a big supporter. I had an executive sponsor who sat on our executive committee. So I had this group around me. I had access to our chief operating officer, our chief finance officer. All of those people made it so that I could get the traction I needed with our executive populations, our leadership across our regions, and make stuff move. I think it's really difficult if you don't have that access and that senior buy-in. So it's the wellbeing leaders themselves having that capability, that expertise, that experience, but it's also our senior leadership as they start to come around to this idea that wellbeing and performance aren't an either-or. It's not a scale that you need to balance. Wellbeing drives sustainable performance. I think the problem is that we've got too much short-term measurement because I think we all know that you can perform well with low wellbeing for short periods of time. You might be able to do it six months, a couple of years maybe, but if you want to do it sustainably over a career, then you need wellbeing to power it. If you want to create a sustainable organization, then wellbeing really should be a strategic part of it.
I think that's an excellent closure for this episode. My big takeaway is that wellbeing is a team effort. We need buy-in from everywhere in the organization. Thank you, Emily, for being here with me today.
Thank you so much for having me, Ildiko. I've enjoyed it. I hope you discovered a bit more about employee wellbeing, the 'S' in ESG. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on your own wellbeing initiatives and how your companies approach it. Thank you for being here with us today. We'll be back with some more next time.
Comments